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Topic: Rare Earth in the 1980's

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Tim Ellsworth
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Rare Earth in the 1980's
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Hi Ray,

I took over the bass spot after Urso exited. When Pete left, Mark and I took over the vocal duties. I don't remember Gil doing any lead vocs except maybe shared vocs on parts of songs like "Big Brother". I sand "Tobacco Road" and "Born To Wander" and thought that Mark sang the rest.

Maybe Gil started singing some of the songs after I left?

I could be mistaken... It was 25 years ago!

Peace ~Tim Ellsworth



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Jimmy 19029
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Hi Tim. Glad to hear from you. Ray mentioned this guy's name as bassist a few years ago on this forum---Ray's quote:  IN THE EARLY TO MID 80'S. THERE WAS ANOTHER BASSIST DURING THAT TIME NAMED TIM MCCORMICK.

 

Was there another Tim who was roadie then bassist, or was this you?



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Tim Ellsworth
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I have absolutely no idea who Tim McCormick is or was... I came into the band in '83 via Bobby Roberts Agency recommendation but I was never on the road crew. After I left the band in '85, I got a call from Mark who asked me to go out for another tour. I had already committed to another project and recommended to Mark that they ought to get Bird to replace me. Bird was working as road manager at that time... I had heard an album by a group called "Blue Money" and he had played bass on that record... I really liked his playing so I thought he would fill the bill.

 

Sooo... When Urso went out, I went in and when I went out Bird went in... Nobody in that time-line named McCormick.

 

During the two years that I was in the group, Mark and I wrote and recorded (on 4 track) a handful of songs together at Eddie's place in Howell. We performed "All Or Nothing", "It's Only Love" (that one was reggae flavor) and ummm... we may have played "Hold On - To Your Love" although we may have just been working on that one and may not have finished it up...

 

There was a riff that Mark wrote that the band went into toward the end of "I Just Want To Celebrate" ... I snatched that riff and wrote a song around it which the band rehearsed a couple of times but I don't believe it made it into a show... That one was called "It's All In The Game" and it kind of had a "Police" flavor to it...

 

Also... during one of the band hotel room woodshed get togethers, Pete was trying to introduce "Company Town" to the band... I can remember him singing the lyrics, which he had written down on paper...

 

Anyway... I think Tim McCormick is most likely a figment of someone's imagination. There are also other discrepencies in the time regarding the revolving door of drummers...

 

More to come....



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Tim Ellsworth
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By the way... How does one register to the forum.

 

I'd like to get registered if possible.

 

Tim Ellsworth

 

(in Lansing Michigan)



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Jimmy19029
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Thanks for the info, Tim. I believe it was Ray who mentioned Tim McCormick's name. Maybe he was a roadie before you came. There seems to be much confusion about the 1984-1987 era about who were the members at which times. Bob Rock (drums) and Andy Merrild (bass) are 2 other musicians that have also been discussed on this forum in the past. The consensus seems to be they were in RE briefly circa 1985 prior to Bird taking up the bass. Glad to have your input here too and look forward to reading more of your posts.  

 

Usually I just post. I think the forum's opened to everyone...one of the few I see that is in these days of spam and all the other wonderful online things.....



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Tim Ellsworth
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Bob Brock (Bobby Rock) came and went during my time inthe band... we found him at an outdoor gig in Arkansas... well I heard him playing and ran up to the house where the rest of the band was hanging out before our set and grabbed the guys... Bob was kicking ass... so anyway the guys brought Bobby in from Texas (I think) during the break between tours we rehearsed him and he went out with the band for what seems like just a couple of shows... one of the gigs was in Chicago where we played an oudoor show in front of maybe 7,000 good people...

 

But... when I showed up for the next tour Bobby was gone and that guy from Jackson was back (sigh)... I don't know the details but I'm guessing that Bobby was either going to be too expensive or he had conflicting obligations.

 

I have no idea who Andy is... perhaps he could have been in very briefly before Bird(?)... I'll ask Bird if he went straight in after me and get back to you...



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John
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Tim,

Welcome to the forum, you will of course be added to the Rare Earth members page on the main site in due course. 

There is no need to register at the present time, just replace "Anonymous" with your name in the box.

It seems we have quite a list of musician's that were in the band  that are not listed.

So far we have,

Tim Ellsworth - confirmed

Chet McCracken - confirmed (1975) - Can be seen on the 1975 Don Kirshner TV concert.

Ken Johnson - confirmed

Tim McCormick

Andy Merrild

Bob Rock

Tony Thomas

Any more?



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RAY MONETTE
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HI GUYS,

THIS IS THE MOST ACCURATE STORY,AND LIST OF RARE EARTH MUSICIANS I'VE SEEN.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_(band)

THE ONLY PERSON MISSING IS ROBERT WILSON WHO PLAYED BASS ON SOME OF" BAND TOGETHER". HE WAS THE FOUNDING MEMBER OF THE GAP BAND.

TIM MCCORMICK WAS A ROADIE ONLY. MAYBE GOT MIXED UP WITH TIM ELLSWORTH BECAUSE OF THE SAME FIRST NAME.

 

RAY



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Tim Ellsworth
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RAY MONETTE wrote:

HI GUYS,

THIS IS THE MOST ACCURATE STORY,AND LIST OF RARE EARTH MUSICIANS I'VE SEEN.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_(band)

THE ONLY PERSON MISSING IS ROBERT WILSON WHO PLAYED BASS ON SOME OF" BAND TOGETHER". HE WAS THE FOUNDING MEMBER OF THE GAP BAND.

TIM MCCORMICK WAS A ROADIE ONLY. MAYBE GOT MIXED UP WITH TIM ELLSWORTH BECAUSE OF THE SAME FIRST NAME.

 

RAY

 Hi Ray - It's been a long time man and it's nice to touch base with you again.

Has someone just edited the wiki page (reference link above)? The content has changed from what was there yesterday. 

Now there is a reference to an Andy Merrild going in before Bird. Are you sure that Andy wasn't that drummer from the Detroit area who was came in for a short time just before I left? I remember that Jerry LaBlock had been brought into the band during my time so... yikes there were so many drummers in and out of the group that it's almost impossible to get the history of that time sorted out.

The wiki page now states the Bob Brock (whose proffessional name was Bobby Rock) was not the same guy as the guy who played for Vinnie Vincent.. that is heavy metal player and producer... but I say he IS the same guy. My story -- Sometime after I had left the group I was watching Mtv... a Vinnie Vincent video came on the screen and wait who is that on the kit? I recognized the guy to be the same cat who had done the short stint with Rare Earth. Maybe the only way to sort this one out would be to ask Bobby Rock if he remembers being in the band for that short time.



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Jimmy19029
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Just found this link on Andy Merrild:

http://www.lunaticfringerocks.com/andymerrild.cfm

He's definitely from Michigan.

 

 



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Jimmy19029
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There is another Bob Rock, who is from Canada, who has produced eveyone from Loverboy to Metallica.

http://www.bruceallen.com/bob_rock.html

 



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Jimmy19029
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I think Tony Thomas was the Michigan drummer you're recalling, Tim.

 

Here's a post from this forum from June 2007 from a poster named Stuart:

I remember Tim the bassist being the first replacement for Mike. I saw RE a good 7-8 times or so in the Chicago area between 82 and 84.  I think I may have seen one of Pete's very last shows with RE in the fall of 83 at the Thirsty Whale in River Grove (outside of Chicago).  It was an awesome show.  The crowd was going nuts and Pete was like, "Ok, don't go crazy on me!".  Anyway, after the show, Pete came out and talked with a few of us for a good hour or so.  He didn't seem to be too happy about things.  I remember the last thing he said at the time was "I'll be back, whether it's under the Rivera brothers or RE, I'll be back." (I'm paraphrasing here, these may not be the exact words, but close).  A few months later, I caught them at Connolly's on the south side of Chicago with the new drummer, and I believe the first replacement of Pete,.............Tony from Lansing, MI.  He was a big dude with a moustache.  Not a bad singer at all.  I remember him complaining to Ray after the show that his drumsticks were slipping out of his hand during Big Brother!!  But that was the night I recounted in another thread when I mentioned how pissed and shocked I was that Pete wasn't there and when Eddie motioned for me to come over (I thought he was going to kick my butt because I was heckeling the band a bit) only to ask me to go to the bar and get him a drink.

 



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Anonymous
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Jimmy19029 wrote:

Just found this link on Andy Merrild:

http://www.lunaticfringerocks.com/andymerrild.cfm

He's definitely from Michigan.

 Nice research work Jimmy. aww

From his page: "Andy was invited to be a perfomring member with the legendary band Rare Earth ("Get Ready," "I Just Want to Celebrate," "Losing You," "Born to Wander")."

Doesn't state the "when" that we are looking for though... confuse

Maybe Ray did the Wiki page edit and inserted Andy in there in the proper spot. Maybe Andy was in for just a "tour" before they brought Bird in... (?)

This issue probably shouldn't bug me except that for all of this time I've been under the impression that Bird followed me in the succession.



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Tim Ellsworth
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Jimmy19029 wrote:

I think Tony Thomas was the Michigan drummer you're recalling, Tim.

Here's a post from this forum from June 2007 from a poster named Stuart:

I remember Tim the bassist being the first replacement for Mike. I saw RE a good 7-8 times or so in the Chicago area between 82 and 84.  I think I may have seen one of Pete's very last shows with RE in the fall of 83 at the Thirsty Whale in River Grove (outside of Chicago).  It was an awesome show.  The crowd was going nuts and Pete was like, "Ok, don't go crazy on me!".  Anyway, after the show, Pete came out and talked with a few of us for a good hour or so.  He didn't seem to be too happy about things.  I remember the last thing he said at the time was "I'll be back, whether it's under the Rivera brothers or RE, I'll be back." (I'm paraphrasing here, these may not be the exact words, but close).  A few months later, I caught them at Connolly's on the south side of Chicago with the new drummer, and I believe the first replacement of Pete,.............Tony from Lansing, MI.  He was a big dude with a moustache.  Not a bad singer at all.  I remember him complaining to Ray after the show that his drumsticks were slipping out of his hand during Big Brother!!  But that was the night I recounted in another thread when I mentioned how pissed and shocked I was that Pete wasn't there and when Eddie motioned for me to come over (I thought he was going to kick my butt because I was heckeling the band a bit) only to ask me to go to the bar and get him a drink.

 I'm not 100% on Tony's last name... I did an edit on the Wiki page and put that last name in there as the name pulled from memory but I also inserted (citation needed) on that info.  Also, as I remember it, he was from Flint not Lansing. He did have a big moustache and wore a hat. smile (where's the big moustache and hat emoticon?) He had kind of a "gravelly", whiskey voice. Nice dude. I don't recall why he left or was replaced.

Yes, there was always some drama going on between Pete and Gil... to my recollection was about management issues. Of course I don't know any specifics... Pete's brother Phil was road manager when I came into the picture.-- Bart and Buffy were the road crew guys... Bart was the soundman.

Also... I think Pete was just tired of gigging, not knowing what kind of club he'd be at from one gig to the next... one day we'd be performing for an audience of a couple thousand and the next day there might be 15 people in the audience... Anyway that was my impression of it...



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Tim Ellsworth
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Also... Regarding road crew - After Bart and Buffy left (both nicknames as both of their names were Mark)... My brother Matt worked on the crew and also Ken Miller. Ken helped Gil move from Cali to Michigan. After those guys left Bird was in with another guy whose name escapes me at the moment.

Maybe the fact that my brother was working on the crew contributed to the "roadie who bacame a bassist" confusion.

Also... the comment about Eddie asking the guy to get him a drink was hilarious and sounds like something Eddie would do.

I think I acquired a "Thirsty Whale" tee shirt from that gig... biggrin



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Jimmy19029
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It was actually me who did the edit on the Wiki page, based on info I'd seen on this forum and on there before but I should've probably waited till we had all the facts rather than going on best guesstimation. Sorry I confused you. I imagine Andy was there only a very very short time, like Tony.

In Pete's book he states he was getting tired of the smaller and smaller club gigs for less & less money. He and Gil were toying with the idea of just continuing on themselves (or so he states in the book) since they owned the RE name. But then, Gil decided to move ahead without him. It would be interesting to see Gil come on here, if he should so choose, and give us his memory and thoughts of the split. More than likely, though, it probably involves alot of personal issues that are not really our business....       



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Tim Ellsworth
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Here is the Bob Brock that was in the band for a short time...

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Bobby_Rock



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RAY MONETTE
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HI TIM,

GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU..HOPE ALL IS WELL.

ANDY MERRILL PLAYED WITH US FOR ABOUT 9 MO. HE'S A FRIEND OF BOB WEAVER,ONE OF OUR DRUMMERS, AND CAME IN AFTER BOB. I BELIEVE THE TWO OF THEM ARE PLAYING WITH SPYDER TURNER THESE DAYS.

I CAN'T REMEMBER TONY'S LAST NAME EITHER,BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S THOMAS.

 

THE REAL EXPERT ON ALL THESE QUESTIONS IS BIRD. HE'S GOT A GREAT MEMORY.HE CAN TELL YOU JUST ABOUT ANY DETAIL ABOUT THE SHOWS

THAT WE'VE DONE SINCE HE'S BEEN WITH THE BAND!

RAY



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Anonymous
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Let's see: Do I stay on the road longer and longer to make enough money to satisfy everyone or do I stay home with my little baby children so the can know their Dad......  Gee tough decision...... 



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Anonymous
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So Tim, let's hear your story. When in 1983 did you first join RE? What are your memories of gigs and the split between Gil & Pete? When in 1985 did you leave? I guess Jerry LeBloch joined just before you left?



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Tim Ellsworth
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RAY MONETTE wrote:

HI TIM,

GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU..HOPE ALL IS WELL.

ANDY MERRILL PLAYED WITH US FOR ABOUT 9 MO. HE'S A FRIEND OF BOB WEAVER,ONE OF OUR DRUMMERS, AND CAME IN AFTER BOB. I BELIEVE THE TWO OF THEM ARE PLAYING WITH SPYDER TURNER THESE DAYS.

I CAN'T REMEMBER TONY'S LAST NAME EITHER,BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S THOMAS.

THE REAL EXPERT ON ALL THESE QUESTIONS IS BIRD. HE'S GOT A GREAT MEMORY.HE CAN TELL YOU JUST ABOUT ANY DETAIL ABOUT THE SHOWS

THAT WE'VE DONE SINCE HE'S BEEN WITH THE BAND!

RAY

 Hi Ray,

Just got off of the phone with Bird. Here is how he remembers the events...

The timeline has me in from September of '83 until September of '84 (approx.) ... I left and Bird was about to go check out getting in when he was told that the band had hired Andy (who was a friend of Bob Weaver)... Bird said that Andy must have been in for those 9 months that you (Ray) refer to... and then I was back in for around 3 months. And THEN Bird was finally in from September of '85 and up to the present.

Man I did too many drugs in the 80's... now I don't care what the temerature is... aww

Regarding Tony's last name... Right... I guess that will need to be taken off of the Wiki page.

This new info will need to be put up as well.

Also... It seems to me that Bob Weaver was moved in and out as the drummer a number of times. Seems like he had been doing tours with the band before September of '84...

 



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Jimmy19029
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Great detective work, Tim! I gues Bird didn't recall Tony's last name.

I wonder if he remembers if there was anyone else doing lead vocals in 1986-1987 after Mark Olson was let go and before Wayne Baraks joined (in 1987).

 



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Mike D.
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Now I know who has been updating the Rare Earth wikipedia page.



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Mike D.
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And the updates are a good thing too.



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Jimmy19029
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Good, glad to hear that you like the updates, Mike. Most of the info now on there was supplied by myself (with welcome additions from Tim Ellsworth and others) during the last couple of years. And much of the recent stuff was taken directly from this forum....the best source for ALL RE info I've ever seen. And it just keeps getting better.....



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Mike D.
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Jimmy19029 wrote:

Good, glad to hear that you like the updates, Mike. Most of the info now on there was supplied by myself (with welcome additions from Tim Ellsworth and others) during the last couple of years. And much of the recent stuff was taken directly from this forum....the best source for ALL RE info I've ever seen. And it just keeps getting better.....

 I absolutely love it! Great work. Anywhere else on the net, Rare Earth is considered a footnote in music history. It's nice to see a page on Wikipedia that strives to be informative and accurate regarding Rare Earth.



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Stuart -- Chicago
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Wow, so little activity on the forum lately...and now this!!  Welcome Tim and thanks to Jimmy 19029 for digging out my account of seeing Tim and RE from 82-84 (so I didn't have to repeat myself as I was about to do, lol!)

I've posted some pics on the forum in the past of some of those shows but the 2 or 3 times I saw you, Tim, I didn't have my camera.  I remember those shows so fondly, seeing Rare Earth so shortly after their classic days.  It was a very exciting time as a lot of my friends and I were exctied for a possible RE successful comeback.  The time seemed ripe.

After those shows in 82-84 I didn't start going to RE shows on a regular basis until 1990.  By then it was the Wayne Barricks era and the Different World and Live In Switzerland era.  Therefore, I can't really help with filling in some of those mid and late 80's gaps in the line up.

My recollections on Tony were additionally based on a letter I wrote to Ma Nugent (Ted Nugent's mother) in 1984.  She answered questions about music and the local Chicagoland music scence in the Illinois Entertainer magazine.  I still have a copy of the letter somewhere and I will dig it out and quote when I have the chance. I basically asked her what happened to Pete and she mentioned Tony as his replacement and referred to him as "a Lansing boy."  I also believe she mentioned his last name!!

More later,

Stuart -- Chicago



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Jimmy19029
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Welcome back, Stuart! And we look forward to more of your input!



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Richard
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There is only one word to describe all the messages on this thread and thats FASCINATING......So much brilliant input/info from so many people. Thanks everyonE, keep it comming...

Richard



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Mike D.
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I plan to be more active this coming year. 2011 has been a draining year for me.



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AL FROM CANADA
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It just keeps getting better and better,man oh man I had a great time reading these posts keep 'em coming.smile



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Stuart -- Chicago
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Can't seem to locate my letter to Ma Nugent regarding Tony.  Doh!!  I fear it is lost.  At least I know where it isn't.  I'll keep looking.

Stuart



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RICH
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Was JIMMY DOUGLAS,bass.ever a member?Accordin to DR JOHN.he was;He replaced MCBRIDE?He told me this in a NYC cab.



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Jimmy19029
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Hmm, Not that we've ever heard. Ray? Do you a recall a Jimmy Douglas on bass circa 1975-76?



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RAY MONETTE
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HI GUYS,

WE NEVER HAD A BASS PLAYER NAMED JIMMY DOUGLAS.

MUST HAVE BEEN A ROCK RUMOR.

RAY



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RICH
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DR JOHN(the real one)tolded me this.It made sense,DOUGLAS was the bass player 4 CREATION which had a RE connection,he went on to become a preacher.Also,ex-creation members helped PETE out on his HUB album.RAY,PETE should know.I see how rumors get started.



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Mike
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There is one HUB/Rare Earth link besides the obvious one of Pete/Mike/Tom...Paul Warren. He is on Back To Earth and the 2nd HUB album.

 



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Anonymous
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I was told once that Ray had his guitar taken from him by invading stage fans.............no

 

Santa Clause is coming down my chimney later



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Mike
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Anonymous wrote:

I was told once that Ray had his guitar taken from him by invading stage fans.............no

 

Santa Clause is coming down my chimney later

 Ray's black Gibson Les Paul (used on One World) was stolen on the road shortly after he joined, if I remember correctly. His trademark stratocaster is heard on practically every Rare Earth track he played on...except for a few acoustic things and Hum Along And Dance.



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RAY MONETTE
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THAT'S RIGHT,THE LES PAUL WAS STOLEN FROM MADISON SQUARE GARDEN WHEN WE PLAYED WITH SLY AND THE FAMILY STONE. ONE WORLD WAS THE ONLY ALBUM I USED IT ON. EVERYTHING ELSE WAS THE STRAT. EXCEPT FOR WHAT MIKE SAID.

ALSO,TALKING ABOUT DR. JOHN BRINGS BACK MEMORIES OF GOING TO MIAMI WITH DENNIS COFFEY,AND JACK ASHFORD TO RECORD FOR JACKIE MOORE IN MIAMI'S CRITERIA SOUND. THAT WAS BACK IN THE LATE 60'S WHEN I WAS DOING STUDIO WORK. THE SONG THAT CAME OUT WAS CALLED "TIME".

THE PLAYERS WERE Mac Rebennack, Dave Crawford, Michael Utley (keyboards) 

Jesse Boyce (bass) 
Freeman Brown (drums) 
Brad Shapiro, Jack Ashford (percussion) 
Andrew Love, Wayne Jackson and the Memphis Horns 

Recorded at Criteria Studios, Miami 

OF COURSE,MAC IS DR. JOHN. DENNIS AND I HUNG OUT WITH HIM AT HIS PLACE. GREAT GUY!! WE HAD A BLAST.

 

RAY



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Chicago Tommy
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Hey Ray,

I remember you telling the story of the Les Paul. damn shame.

Is this the tune you went to record on in Miami? Sounds like the session and the down time around it was all good. Good song, I can't say I'm familiar with it, until now of course.

[video= ]

- Chicago Tommy



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RAY MONETTE
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HI TOMMY,

I DON'T THINK THE LINK WORKED. 

MOST OF THE STUDIO WORK THAT I DID IN THE 60'S WAS R&B. JACKIE MOORE IS ONE EXAMPLE.WE CUT FOUR SONGS FOR HER.

HERE'S THE YOUTUBE LINK TO "TIME":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6JwTmFp7P8



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Anonymous
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RICH
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DR JOHN is really cool.Had some personal problems,but he keeps truckin;Surprised he never mentoined hangin out w/RAY;



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Anonymous
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RAY MONETTE wrote:

HI TOMMY,

I DON'T THINK THE LINK WORKED. 

MOST OF THE STUDIO WORK THAT I DID IN THE 60'S WAS R&B. JACKIE MOORE IS ONE EXAMPLE.WE CUT FOUR SONGS FOR HER.

HERE'S THE YOUTUBE LINK TO "TIME":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6JwTmFp7P8

 Ray,

Opps, thanks for the assist, that is the link I attempted to post.  I definitly need help regarding how to post those embeded youtube files. Jackie is yet another artist I learned about from you - thank you.  

-Chicago Tommy



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Anonymous
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Tim, I'm betting you were the bass player who played with Rare Earth at a 3000 night club in Indianapolis, IN in 1983 and then, like you said, about a month later played another club in Indianapolis,IN called The Warehouse West to an almost empty house... I DJ'd at Picadilly at the time, and the band was super strong... I think the other nightclub owner saw what a success the Picadilly gig was and thought he could clean up on hiring the band, but it didn't happen and the band had a whole different attitude for the 2nd gig. I have the Picadilly show on VHS with sound straight off the board mix. Awesome...



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Anonymous
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Wow!

 

Will be possible see that on you tube????

 

thks



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Anonymous
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I remember when Rare Earth played at the Civic Center in Hammond Indiana. The line was long. My friend and I had to find a bush, but the rodies were hanging on the porch the north side of the building. They let us in and partied with us all night. Jack Swift was a rodie...I do believe that was his name. Tall, long blond curly hair. I had such a great time that night...I was 16 years old and in love ! :) Is Jack still around ?



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Anonymous
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I recall ray saying Gil picked up all the live vocals after mark died. 



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Jocko
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I recall somebody posting photos from 1983 after Mike Urso left when Tim Ellsworth replaced him on bass. If I recall correctly there were several photos posted with this line including Pete and Tim Ellsworth as well as the otherembers at the time. I originally thought it may have been Stuart who posted those photos but he recently told us he didn't have his camera when Tim E was playing bass. 

I'm pretty sure the person who posted the photos had attended the show with his brother and girlfriend. Are you sure this wasn't you Stuart because what you said above in regards to talking with Pete sounds awfully familiar. And as for you Tim I was only lucky enough to catch one show with you playing bass. Next show after that one Bird was the bassist.

And speaking of Randy I guess Bird is the longest running bassist in the history of the band. 1985 through 2013 is a hell of a run with the same band. Hope Bird is OK and doing well and the other band members too. I'm long overdue for a Rare Earth concert. Too bad Ivan wasn't able to stick it out a while longer but I for one wasn't disappointed to learn guitar God Ray Monette was back on board filling the fans heads with dirt.

I Hope Ivan is OK and also doing well too. 

 



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MartyB
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Jocko wrote:
...I for one wasn't disappointed to learn guitar God Ray Monette was back on board filling the fans heads with dirt.

 +1 for Ray on Guitar!

 

MartyB



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