Has anyone heard the recent MA cd release? It has a hidden track on it according to various sites selling it. Does anyone know what this track is? I dont understand the reason why MA is the only studio cd available. For me it is weaker than most of the other albums, anyway it would be nice if someone out there knows what the extra track is.
My favourite albums are
1 One World 2 Ecology 3 Band Together 4 Dreams Answers 5 Get Ready 6 In Concert 7 Rareearth 8 Willie Remembers 9 Made In Switzerland 10 Back To Earth 11 Different World 12 Grand Slam 13 Midnight Lady 14 MA
I recently bought a "used" copy of Ma on CD. It's been around a while but I also heard there's a more recent version with a hidden track. I've no idea what it is unfortunately.
Like you, I wouldn't place Ma among my favourite Rare Earth albums. It comes over that Motown wanted a quick follow-up to Willie Remembers. I really like "Big John is my name", "Smiling Faces Sometimes" and "Hum Along and Dance", but the rest of it doesn't grab me in the same way as the earlier records. I don't think the title track was particularly suited to being stretched to a whole side of vinyl. Other people really like it though and I gather it sounded great live.
I enjoyed reading your list of albums placed in order of preference. I would put "One World" and "In Concert" as my joint favourites. Willie Remembers would sit third. After that, I'd have to think long and hard about which order to place them in. Each has its moments.
"MA" WASN'T REALLY ACCEPTED IN THE U.S. IT'S BIGGEST AUDIENCE WAS IN GERMANY.WE NEVER EVEN PLAYED IT LIVE UNTIL WE WENT TO EUROPE IN 1989. YOU WOULD SEE SOME BIG GERMAN GUY IN THE AUDIENCE SOBBING,AND SAYING PLAY MAAA!!! THEY REALLY LOVED THAT SONG .
LATER WE TRIED IT A FEW TIMES IN THE U.S BUT IT NEVER HAD THE SAME IMPACT.
Ray, August 1973. Raceway Park Englishtown, New Jersey. Rare Earth w/Special guests Earth,Wind+Fire. The "MA" Tour. This was about my seventh or eighth Rare Earth Concert. I attended this show with about a dozen friends and my chin was placed just about on the foot of the stage. I seem to recall the band playing about a twelve to fifteen minute version of "MA'. While the band was jamming towards the end of the song both Gil and Mark were playing horns. After this gig I attended at least another twenty Rare Earth shows and I can safely say I never saw the band play "Ma" again. I know the band started plaing "MA" again after Europe in 89 but I wasn't lucky enough to catch a show before the song was dropped. Didn't the band release a live CD single of "MA" around 89 on a German label. JockoD
Hate to say this but "MA" on the record was fun.....MA live was really boring. It wasn't the best song to be playing on stage. Tough to capture in intimacy of the studio... It then becomes contrived and for me (my opinion) "not speaking for anyone else" MA was "BORING !!!!!" Sorry, it's the truth for me....Peter
WHEN "MA" WAS FIRST RELEASED WE PLAYED IT LIVE FOR A LITTLE WHILE. YOU WERE AT ONE OF THOSE PERFORMANCES. I THINK I COULD COUNT ON ONE HAND THE NUMBER OF TIMES WE PLAYED IT IN THE STATES,EVEN AFTER 1989. IN EUROPE IT WAS A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY. THEY LOVED THE SONG,ESPECIALLY IN GERMANY.
EVEN SO,LIKE PETER SAID,IT WAS TOUGH TO PULL OFF LIVE. IF ANYTHING I THOUGHT IT BROKE THE BUILD AND MOMENTUM OF THE SHOW.WE WERE PLAYING A SHOW THAT WAS TIME TESTED TO BUILD TO A PEAK,AND END WITH "CELEBRATE". IT WOULD HAVE BEEN HARD TO FIT ANY SONG IN THAT SHOW THAT WOULDN'T HAVE BROKEN THAT MOMENTUM. WE ACTUALLY OPENED WITH "MA" IN EUROPE,SO THE SHOW COULD BUILD THE WAY IT ALWAYS HAD.
Welcome back. Where have you been these last few weeks? :)
Peter and Ray:
When I bought the MA album and saw the title track took up one side of the LP, I was so excited and couldn't wait to play it. I assumed it was going to be another "Get Ready" uptempo jam number. But when I heard it, I kept waiting for something to happen. It was so obvious that Norman was trying to recreate Papa Was A Rolling Stone MkII and it was just too long. Was that Norman's decision or the band's I wonder?
To be honest, though I never actually disliked it, I'm now more into Ma (the song) than I ever was. Maybe I can appreciate the subtleties a bit more. I can well imagine Peter, Mike and Eddie found it boring to play live though. That backing riff is just so repetitive and goes on seemingly forever.
Very interesting comments on Ma. I always wondered what it sounded like "live". Now as for another Ma song played in 73, Big John Is My Name must've been far more fun to play. I have a recording of it from 1980 @ Harpo's in Detroit and it's one of the highlights of that whole show for me. Peter or Ray...was Hum Along And dance played in 73 also? I ask because I have a performance form the same 1980 gig and it works great as an in concert piece.
Ok, now here's one to really stump y'all...the Wille Remembers material...how much of this and what songs were played live back in 72/73? It's one of my 3 fave R.E. albums and I always wondered what songs from this were played onstage. I could think of several songs that would work but perhaps someone can shed some light. Thanks.
I can well imagine Peter, Mike and Eddie found it boring to play live though. That backing riff is just so repetitive and goes on seemingly forever.
I know exactly what you mean. The song doesn't leave much room for Peter, Mike and Eddie to improvise...that was left to Ray, Mark & Gil.
You can definitely hear this was edited down in the same manner the studio cut of Losing You was.
There's one bit I've always liked towards the end...Ray's playing this wah wah lick every bar or so while Mark's playing a funky piano lick. If you listen CLOSE, you can another guitar part from Ray mark's piano lick. And after a few times Peter starts doing some drum fills on the toms and crash cymbals.
MA is a solid record and everyone played fine on it...it's just bogged down by the following for me:
1. It's an all Whitfield album.
2. No compositions from band members...that's what makes Willie Remembers fresh.
3. Not enough harmonies like on previous albums...the blend of Pete, Gil, Mark and John (later Mike) really shines. Only on Smiling Faces do we get this and only for a few moments.
I've always said......The MA album was a Norman Whitfield record played by Rare Earth..... Big John was fun.... The sex moaning was to me embarrassing. Hum along.....was OK..... Smilin Faces I liked.... I loved the way all the guys played on the record but the content left much to be desired.... Peter
I've always said......The MA album was a Norman Whitfield record played by Rare Earth..... Big John was fun.... The sex moaning was to me embarrassing. Hum along.....was OK..... Smilin Faces I liked.... I loved the way all the guys played on the record but the content left much to be desired.... Peter
I have to agree with that. A shame the brass at Motown didn't allow the band to work with Tom Baird again. In my opinion, R.E.made it's best records with Tom (Ecology, Generation soundtrack & single, One World & Willie Remembers). Ecology & Willie are my fave R.E. records.
Peter, in the song "Come With Me" there's someone faintly singing something at the end of the song...sound like "sweeter than wine...". It sounds like it might be Mark but I could be wrong. Do you recall who was singing that and what he was singing?
Mike, Seeing nobody answered your question on what songs from the "Willie Remembers" LP were played live I'll take a crack at it.
We're talking thirty-five years in the past but I seem to remember::Good Time Sally, We're Gonna Have A good Time, I've Just Got To Get Myself Back Home, Every Now And Then We Get To Go On Down To Miami.
Two tracks from WR I would have loved to have heard live were "Come With Your Lady" and "I Couldn't Believe What Happened Last Night" but I don't recall the band ever doing these two numbers at any shows I attended. Please remember this was a very long time ago so I may have missed something. Jocko D
I was disappointed to hear the band didn't feature "I Couldn't Believe What Happened Last Night" in their set. I'd always hoped that this was one of the songs that would be included on "Live In Chicago" and that one day I might get to hear it. Now of course, with the track list for LIC posted on this website quite a while ago, I know the song isn't featured.
In any case, I doubt I'll ever get to hear Live In Chicago
Thats OK Doogie. I've done the same thing loads of times myself. Once that "Submit Post" button is pressed its too late to turn back
Do you think any of us will ever get to hear that Live In Chicago recording? Do you know if it was going to be a single album or was it intended to be a double album like "In Concert"? I suppose it might be possible to tell from looking at the intended catalogue numbers.
UK Dave wrote:Do you think any of us will ever get to hear that Live In Chicago recording? Do you know if it was going to be a single album or was it intended to be a double album like "In Concert"? I suppose it might be possible to tell from looking at the intended catalogue numbers.
Hi Dave,
I'm working on locating a copy at this moment. It would've been a double. I had a blown up picture of the "cover" you see on the discography page. The songs were:
Hey Big Brother Born To Wander We're Gonna Have A Good Time Big John Is My Name Ma I Know I'm Losing You I Just Want To Celebrate Get Ready
You are right about funky black man and chained, they would have been played.. Sorry to say they would not be included in the Live In Chicago album. The tracks listed on the site was the final track listing for the LP release. The studio version of Funky Black Man is stranded in the vaults of Motown.
What do you remember about that song? Was it good?
Mike's track listing refers to the songs that would have made the album. In other words Motown were intending to leave out "Chained" and "Funky Black Man". There's only so much music that can fit on an LP.
Just to give you another example, Deep Purple's "Made In Japan" which came out around the time of Rare Earth's "In Concert" omitted a couple of songs that were played at those shows. The songs in question were "Lucille" and their hit single "Black Night". They couldn't fit them onto vinyl but when issued on CD there was room to include them.
So there's a thought. If those other two songs are still in the vaults, Universal could put out "Live In Chicago" complete with those tracks. I think "could but won't" is the phrase that comes to mind.
Just to give you another example, Deep Purple's "Made In Japan" which came out around the time of Rare Earth's "In Concert" omitted a couple of songs that were played at those shows. The songs in question were "Lucille" and their hit single "Black Night". They couldn't fit them onto vinyl but when issued on CD there was room to include them.
Don't forget Speed King. The 7 songs on Made In Japan were the regular set. The encores were:
Black Night (all 3 nights) Speed King (1st and 3rd night) Lucille (2nd night)
You are right about funky black man and chained, they would have been played.. Sorry to say they would not be included in the Live In Chicago album. The tracks listed on the site was the final track listing for the LP release. The studio version of Funky Black Man is stranded in the vaults of Motown.
What do you remember about that song? Was it good?
I doubt funky black man and chained were played. The album was recorded in late 1973. Those 2 songs weren't tracked until Spring 1974. But who knows for sure.
Ron,
Did you see the band in Chicago in 1974? If so, that'd have been a different concert.
I forgot about Speed King. I replaced my vinyl version of Made in Japan with the CD version. Then another CD version came out (black sleeve rather than gold, which I think was the original sleeve used in Japan). I ended up buying yet another version which is a 3 CD set called "Live in Japan" featuring all three concerts in their entirety including Ian Gillan talking to the audience, time spent tuning guitars, oh and Ritchie Blackmore getting the "Smoke On The Water" riff wrong on one of the nights. Do you have that album?
Funky Black Man was recorded as a studio effort early 74 but it may go back before that by at least a year for live purposes.
This particular studio track is located within the vaults, there were around 14 takes done on it, these are listed on five different tapes. It is on 16 track and 24 track tapes, just to add to the story!
I forgot about Speed King. I replaced my vinyl version of Made in Japan with the CD version. Then another CD version came out (black sleeve rather than gold, which I think was the original sleeve used in Japan). I ended up buying yet another version which is a 3 CD set called "Live in Japan" featuring all three concerts in their entirety including Ian Gillan talking to the audience, time spent tuning guitars, oh and Ritchie Blackmore getting the "Smoke On The Water" riff wrong on one of the nights. Do you have that album?
I have that :)
To John:
I'd sure like to see your list of stuff from the vaults.
here's what gets me...Deep Purple's set from the 74 Cal Jam is on DVD. I'm sure RE's set was fully filmed too. I'm workign on trying to find out and contact who has the footage of the gig. Damn, I'd love to see show on DVD. I've seen the performance of Big Brother and it really kicks a$$.
When I first started viewing this forum a couple of years ago I seem to remember that some guy posted who was involved with filming the California Jam. I seem to recall there was a bit of hostility about his posts though I can't recall the details. Can anyone else remember? I'm sure Richard might be able to clarify.
I have the Deep Purple DVD of their California Jam performance. I always hoped that, at the very least, they might release a compilation DVD of the event so we got to see at least a couple of the Rare Earth songs. Am I right in thinking they only played four songs? I've seen Hey Big Brother on U tube but what else did they play? I'm assuming Celebrate was a dead cert and maybe a shortened version of Get Ready plus Born to Wander?
My only exposure to seeing live footage of RE is the few clips on U tube. Even by watching those clips you can feel the excitement. I can only imagine what it must have been like actually being there. Eddie's percussion just seems to drive the whole thing along.
The guy in question has been banned from about every website in the universe. He had nothing to do with Cal Jam on a professional basis but claims to be the only one in the world to have taped most of it. Most of his material is audio only.
There is another company selling Cal Jam material however the video I watched was out of sync, so while Pete was screaming out Big Brother his voice was saying something else haha. Not funny if you have just wasted money buying it though.
I have two tracks for this on video..... Big Brother and Celebrate, but more songs were performed that day, someone mentioned the tracks on a thread before.
The guy in question goes by the name of Wereo or something like that. His real name is Scott. All he taped was the FM simulcast of the Television special. I'm working on finsing just WHO has the footage.
As for the setlist...I'd imagine Rare Earth did a full setlist or so...I can't imagine a RE set being less than an hour. The Cal Jam was an all day event so I'd bet they did a good 75 minute set...Purple played close to 90 minutes.
The set was probably similar to the tracklisting for Live In Chicago...maybe a song less.
Mike, I've read that Rare Earth's set at the California Jam was only 45 to 50 minutes. There was a thread here on the forum about Cal Jam but Scott took it over and began posting all kinds of ridiculous nonsense. I believe the entire thread had to be removed because of this. Jocko D
Mike, I was very surprised to learn the set at Cal Jam was less than an hour. Before the Cal Jam thread was removed someone posted a track listing for the set.
Your list looks very close to the list that was posted and you may have even gone five for five with it. Jocko D
I was there in 1974 Chicago,they sounded so great..the band was mixed so perfectly Ray Monette guitar was screaming as usual...didn't expect new material..never heard Funky Black Man and Chained played live again,but i never expected a break up...Could it have been R.E last performance?
If I may, I have a question I would like to ask Mr. Rivera or Mr. Monnette, concerning a section of the tune "Ma", that has all but fascinated me.
Could I ask if you can recall what effects you guys were using in that section that created all the spacey-sounds, in the left channel( opposite the channel where the sax is being played) duringthe part that you launched into right after you completed the singing with the words "Give it to me...give it to me...give it to me...Wooooooow"?
I know that there was definitely an "echo plex" being used, but whatever was producing those sounds going through the echo plex was incredible.
I can remember--distinctly--lying down with head phones on, at a pleasant volume level, closing my eyes and just listening intensely to that section, and I felt like I was riding around in a some type of a space craft, and the climax was that--after several minutes of joy riding--it started to nose dive and at the last moment, it just dead stopped before hitting the ground, nose first. This is one of those tunes that will go down in my life as being outstanding as far as creativity is concerned. The guitar playing throughout this tune is all but breath taking, and to me, shows the genius of Ray Monnette.
This album has its moments, even though it may not be one of Rare Earth's more memorable albums, to some. And believe it or not, there were no drugs involved in my listening to this tune.
There's certainly some overdrive on Mark's organ too.
I like how (towards the end of the song)...there's a strange musical juxtaposition:
You can hear Mark playing the same lick on the piano...and Ray is low in the mix playing the same lick on call and response manner. At the very same time, Ray is playing some wah wah licks over the top of it. Man, I'd love to hear the unedited ma track. I can definitely hear an edit point in there...I'm sure they grooved on for far longer than 17 minutes...Losing You (LP version/mix) was edited down from 45 min. in a similar manner.
Mike wrote:MAN,I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO BE A FLY ON THE WALL TO HEAR THAT 45 MIN. VERSION......LOL MARK M
There's certainly some overdrive on Mark's organ too.
I like how (towards the end of the song)...there's a strange musical juxtaposition:
You can hear Mark playing the same lick on the piano...and Ray is low in the mix playing the same lick on call and response manner. At the very same time, Ray is playing some wah wah licks over the top of it. Man, I'd love to hear the unedited ma track. I can definitely hear an edit point in there...I'm sure they grooved on for far longer than 17 minutes...Losing You (LP version/mix) was edited down
I don't know whether to laugh or cry every time I see this sleeve drawing. Maybe Ray, Peter and Gil would like to comment on their initial reaction to seeing the artwork. I'd like to hear their thoughts.
I really don't hate it, then again nor do I love it.
Does anyone remember the sleeve of Jo Jo Gunne's third album "Jumpin' the Gunne" by any chance? It came out about the same time. Now that was a bit over the top!
I recall you saying how Gil and Mark both played sax during this song in concert. Do you recall if they played Hum Along And Dance in 73? I know they didn't play "Come With Me".
On the "Ma" tour in Summer of 73 I recall the band playing Big John, Hum Along and Dance and the title track. I don't recall the band playing "Smiling Faces" although I have seen this tune performed live in later years.
I consider myself very fortunate because according to Ray "Ma" was dropped from the set list after only a handful of shows. I for one will never forget watching the live performance of "Ma" with my chin planted on the foot of the stage at Raceway Park in Englishtown, New Jersey.
This gig will forever be cemented in my mind and yes this was the gig where Gil and Mark jammed their rear ends off on dual saxophone's. Jocko D
Just got back from 2 days in London. Whilst there I did my usual record store visits, even managing to get out without parting with any cash which is rare. Nothing appealed this time around.
As usual, Rare Earth was poorly represented. Only one store had anything. They were in the "Soul" music section and I stumbled on them filed under "Chris Rea"??? Why on earth Chris Rea was filed under Soul Music god only knows.
The two CDs were Rare Earth - The Collection and Ma. The Ma CD carries the Motown logo but its different to the version I bought. The sleeve carries the drawing of the old woman on the rocking horse (very faint and almost invisible) but no mention of the artist or title. On the reverse, they've got rid of the band photo in the studio with Norman Whitfield and it just has the track list contained inside the Ma album logo i.e. a circle with a flash or spark through the middle.
I didn't think the Ma sleeve could be made any worse than it already is, but Motown (or Universal) somehow managed it!!!
UK Dave, When Motown first released Ma on CD it wasn't available here in the USA. I had to purchase a very expensive import copy from Germany.
Several years later I located a US copy of Ma for a reasonable price.
I then located a second US copy of Ma with the same exact sleeve you just described. My immediate thoughts were identical to yours.
I purchased this third copy only because it cost just a few dollars.
I have a friend here in the states who I met through Richard almost twenty years ago. Our friend is very into Rare Earth but didn't have a copy of MA on CD.
I gave our friend the copy of Ma with the horrendous sleeve. He was happy to have it and he then had it autographed by Peter when we attended a CRAS show.
Perhaps the same thought went through Peter's mind as he placed his signature onto this copy of Ma with the horrendous sleeve.
7 Raceway Park Englishtown, New Jersey, Summer of 73, Beginning of the Ma Tour.
8 A group of one dozen friends positioned close enough to the band to place our chins on the edge of the stage.
9 Big John-The percussion section starts it all off. Mark goes to it on harmonica and organ, Gil's excellent sax work, Urso's thumping bass work, Peter and Eddie's
drumming and percussion never missing a beat, Peter's lead vocals in perfect harmony with the rest of the band, Ray brings the crowd to their feet with his blazing guitar work
10 Hum Along And Dance-Mark's organ intro, the crowd goes wild when the band hits the first notes. (They may have originally thought it was "I'm Losing You")
Brilliant bass work by Urso, extraordinary drum's and percussion by Peter, Eddie and Gil, unbelievable keyboards by Mark, Ray's awesome guitar work and solo.
May not be many words to this song, but the boys didn't need lyrics to rock the house with this number.
11 Ma-Twelve to fifteen minute version of the title track. Mark's piano intro and keyboard work, Peter's double bass drumming and lead vocals, Urso's precise bass guitar work,
Eddie playing percussion as only Eddie can do, Ray lashing out with psychedelic and funky guitar riffs in addition to an awesome solo, Mark and Gil jamming their butts together both on saxophone, As Pete does his drum rolls the sweat on his forehead evaporates into steam under the spotlights.
Your right. I have been reading Scott's (WEREO) ramblings for over a year now and he should be called WACKO! I won't even join in on his site as it just a mish-mash of mumblings about an outdoor concert that pretty much nobody remembers. Scott, who wasn't even there, just can't let go. He has just found something to hold on to like a security blanket. He likes to call his "radio recordings" the only thig that matters. If you saw him on this court show on TV, even the judge thought he was a wacko, plus he lost his case. He is one big loser. Scott also has wet dreams about Don Branker, the promoter of the concert. He kind of thinks of Don, who I know, as some sort of God. Don's a great guy, but Scott...give it a rest! Here is what Scott said about this site.
If you want to laugh for the rest of day, open this thread.
I like the line that goes, "he only taped the audio off the Radio." Of COURSE I did! That's because 85% of a film is its sound, genius!
That's how I created the only three hours of Radio that matters.
Are you kidding me? Do you know how GOOD the wereo sounds? It's so terrific even DON E. BRANKER plays it every night before he goes to bed.
The Undisputed's version comes alive after 3 minutes with that tasty instrumental burst....otherwise it's nothing special. It's lacking Gil's sax, Ray's guitar and Pete's vocal. The dancers seem to be struggling to dance to it. Maybe they'e frightened of losing those wigs!! I agree that Rare Earth's version is the preferred one.
I'd guess that RE did it first unlike Smiling Faces which (I think) UT recorded or released first. It was common practice for Motown to multi-record songs using different artists. During that same period I noticed that there was a similar thing going on with Edwin Starr and the Temptations. I presume they used to release the version they considered to have the biggest hit potential. The other versions would end up in the famous vaults or used as album tracks or B sides.
WE RECORDED "MA" FIRST.IT WAS RELEASED IN MAY OF 1973. UT'S VERSION CAME OUT IN 1976.
JUST THE OPPOSITE ON "SMILING FACES". THEY HAD THE FIRST VERSION,AND IT WAS THEIR BIGGEST HIT.
KNOWING NORMAN,HE THOUGHT "MA" WOULD MAKE A STRONG ALBUM CUT,THE SAME WAY HE PRODUCED "SMILING FACES" ON US. THAT WAS ONE OF NORMANS GREATEST TALENTS,TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ANY SONG AND MAKE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VERSIONS WHILE MAKING EACH EQUALLY STRONG.
AS A SIDE NOTE: NORMAN HAS BEEN IN THE HOSPITAL SINCE JULY,AND IS HAVING A VERY TOUGH TIME FIGHTING HEART PROBLEMS. SEND OUT YOUR GOOD THOUGHTS,AND PRAYERS TO ONE OF THE ALLTIME GREATS!!
The earliest released recording of "Ma" was in February 1973 on the Temptations' "Masterpiece" album.
Looking back now, seems like Whitfield pushed the "Ma" song pretty hard... --released 2/73 on The Temptation's MASTERPIECE album --released 3/73 on Rare Earth's "Ma / Ma" single (RareEarth#5053) --released 5/73 on Rare Earth's MA album --released 7/73 on The Temptation's "Hey Girl / Ma" single (Gordy#7131)
(I don't know if Whitfield had anything to do w/Undisputed Truths's version)
mannnnn your talking bout the lady that raised me!
